Sweet or Spicey

[elingregory]

As mentioned briefly yesterday and, very kindly, by alex_beecroft I've been giving a lot of thought to the problems facing authors of books with gay protagonists that don't quite fit the standard M/M = erotica definition.

First of all THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG WITH EROTICA. It has a long and noble tradition, can be very joyful, liberating and great fun to read, and I imagine it's good fun to write if you have the knack for it. Erotic romances can be good fun too and there is certainly a HUGE market for them.

But what about the other genres? I have read plenty of mainstream novels where heterosexual relationships develop and are consummated alongside a complex and satisfying plot, and these books are shelved according to their genre NOT as erotica. Why should a science fiction story, or murder mystery, or spy caper, that might have one or two sex scenes [no more than a similar mainstream novel] be tagged as erotica just because the lovers are the same sex, trans-sexual, or transgender? How can an author flag their work to show that while their books might contain LGBTTQ relationships, relationships that impact on the plot in interesting ways, the sexual content is quite light, scarce, discreet, off page, or not present at all? Do readers need to know that kind of thing before they start reading a book? Would they like to? As readers are you horribly disappointed if a book doesn't have the sexy times you expected from the M/M label? As an author of erotica, do you ever worry about letting your fans down if, just for a change, you decide to write something less explicit than usual? Do you think there should be as much choice, as much range, in books with LGBTTQ characters as you might see on the shelves in Waterstones?

In short - if I - or someone with a rather higher profile - start a group on Goodreads, with another on Facebook where authors can promote books that paddle in the shallow end of the nooky pool, would you be interested in joining, posting etc etc.

Please note - again because it's worth saying more than once - erotica is a fine and lovely category but a 400 page book with one FTB sex scene doesn't really belong in it. I'm just thinking of trying to provide an alternative venue.

Comments

[jessie-lansdel.livejournal.com]

YES!!! Count me in. I agree with every word you wrote. LGBTQ books should be on the mainstream shelves. It's true (at least in my experience) that if you tell someone you're writing/reading an LGBTQ book....it causes raised eyebrows or looks of disgust. They DO think its all graphic sex. I've tried very hard to make these people realise they're wrong...but you may as well explain to the cat.

[elin-gregory.livejournal.com]

You'll never convince those types, but it might make it easier to promote the less 'exciting' romances or the books that aren't really romances at all. :)

[charliecochrane.livejournal.com]

Yes, pick me, please!

[elin-gregory.livejournal.com]

Always, my lovely, :D

[suemont.livejournal.com]

Definitely! I've tried so hard to label my m/m novel mainstream fiction. Yes - it's about time we make a stand (and I've NOTHING against erotica - my book, though, just doesn't fall into that genre).

[elin-gregory.livejournal.com]

Erotica is jolly good fun, but it's just daft marketing a book as erotica when the single sex scene, while plot relevant, is brief.

[marasmine.livejournal.com]

Count me in! I agree with every word you said. There is nothing wrong with erotica - it's fun (and I can't write it well). But calling all LBTQ work erotica or giving it five stars/flames/whatever is very misleading.
I've learned to ignore the erotica label, but it would be good to know just how many pages in a story are devoted to sex before I bought it. Maybe as a percentage?
Once upon a time I insisted on plenty of detailed sex in whatever I read, but now I find myself skimming or skipping a lot of the sex scenes I don't want to spend money on a novel that is 50% or more sex scenes.

[elin-gregory.livejournal.com]

Brilliant. :)

I enjoy a well written sex scene but do a fair amount of skipping too unless it's interesting, funny or in someway unusual. But then I tend to buy the sci fi/mystery/adventure books. I don't usually buy yer actual romances.

[eglantine-br.livejournal.com]

You make a very good point.

[elin-gregory.livejournal.com]

I'm not disapproving of erotica - it can be jolly good fun - but sometimes I just wish there could be books like Bernard Cornwell's or James Patterson's with gay heroes instead of het ones. Surely I can't be the only person who would read things like that?

[alex-beecroft.livejournal.com]

I do worry that people will think I'm loudly claiming not to write erotica because I'm somehow ashamed of erotica. This is not the case - I'm all for it for those who want it. I just honestly don't think I'm writing it myself, and I worry that if people buy my books looking for erotica, they will be disappointed. False labeling does nobody any good! So yes, count me in :)

[elin-gregory.livejournal.com]

It's choices, isn't it? Wouldn't it be great to make it possible for readers to get a better idea of what's available so they run less of a risk of being disappointed. Maybe even making it possible for authors to try a variety of styles, to write what they feel like writing, what enthuses them, and offer their work to different groups of fans as appropriate.

[sandra-lindsey.livejournal.com]

*waves hand* me too!

Not just because I'm pretty sure what I write sits very firmly in the "shallow[er] end of the nooky pool" (love that phrase!) but also because that's what I prefer reading most of the time...

[elin-gregory.livejournal.com]

I quite like to paddle but get uncomfortable once I'm out of my depth :D

[kcwarwick.livejournal.com]

I think this is a good idea. My humorous m/m fantasy novel is often labelled as erotica, although Elise Rolle (bless her) said in her review of it that 'you have to read two time the sentence to really understand if something happened'!

[elin-gregory.livejournal.com]

:) I've had comments like that too.

Now we just need a snappy title for the groups and some idea of the format and we'll be good to go.

[beckyblack]

You can count me in - surprisingly. All my novels so far have explicit erotic scenes in them, but I've got these two novella ideas I'm working on that barely have any sex in them, though are romance. And I enjoy a range of heat levels in m/m books and would like to see more of a range of genres, not only romance. I'm also sure that some of the m/m romance books I read have been shoehorned into that category and their romance credentials are dubious and pasted on.

[elin-gregory.livejournal.com]

There are so many fantastic options, it's a pity to restrict M/M, or F/F or any of the other letters, to just erotica and romance when there are so many other things to explore.

[wulfila.livejournal.com]

Do readers need to know that kind of thing before they start reading a book? Would they like to?

Yes, please. While I realize that there are readers that enjoy erotica, I am not among them. Drawn-out, graphic sex scenes (whether het or gay) aren't my cup of tea, which is why I have pretty much given up on reading romance novels even though I actually like love stories.

The process of deciding against reading any given book is usually as follows - I read a book summary or review online, find myself thinking "oh! That sounds like an interesting plot/a great character/a lovely setting! I should order this book now!", but then, my cynical side chimes in: "But you know what you will actually get if you decide to buy it, don't you? 50 pages of plot (if you are lucky), 50 pages of characters mentally lusting after each other until you are sick of hearing about emerald eyes and delectable backsides, and 100 boring pages easily summarized as they repeatedly put body part A into body part B, and there was much kissing and moaning that you are going to skim over while suppressing a yawn." And so, the book remains unbought.

So, as a reader, I would greatly appreciate having some way of learning about books that focus more on the non-erotic aspects and are therefore more to my taste than the "lots and lots of explicit sex" variety.